The PMTC Perspective on Canada’s Trucking Industry

In this episode, Mike Millian, President of the Private Motor Truck Council of Canada, returns to discuss the latest regulatory developments shaping the Canadian trucking industry. From National Safety Code harmonization to driver training oversight and misclassification enforcement, the discussion examines key challenges and ongoing progress impacting fleets nationwide. Mike also shares insights on evolving compliance expectations, current economic pressures, and the outlook for carriers across Canada.

Plus hear all about the upcoming Annual PMTC Conference taking place in Niagara Falls from June 16-17, 2026.

Transcript

Welcome And What’s Ahead

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Hello, welcome to another episode of the Transfer Tape Podcast, led up by Russ Truck Center Canada. I'm Ghostbase Academy. And joining us again today is Mr. Mike Million, who's the president of the Private Motor Truck Council of Canada. Mike, welcome back to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Good morning, Jason. Thanks for taking it.

National Safety Code Harmonization Fight

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Yeah, so it's been a while since we had you on, and there's definitely been a lot going on in the industry. And so we want to get you back on to talk about what the PMTC has been doing for its members and for the industry really in general, is as far as things that have happened the last year and kind of what's on the horizon for next year. So why don't we kind of start with you know what you guys have been up to for the last little bit with regards to uh the industry as a whole?

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Yeah, well, I'd say, you know, the biggest thing that we're still working on, and it's it's hard to call it new, but it's it's a new ish, I guess. At least we haven't been talking about it forever. But uh biggest thing we're working on, I'd still is say National Safety Code 7, 14, and 15, uh, with the CCMTA and the various jurisdictions. There's been a bit more pressure put on the jurisdictions and CCMTA to do something about this. Um, I'd say more of because of a push for harmonization of trucking regulations that has happened in the face of uh what's going on to the south of us, where we need to look a bit more uh internal and fix our own house a little bit and make us a little more competitive. Uh so National Safety Code 7 is the dryer and carry driver and carrier profile. 14 is the carrier safety rating, and 15 is the facility audit. So uh CCMTA held a workshop of that last September. Um, we're not quite as far along as we thought we were gonna be. They expected to have a draft to industry this spring for us to review. Uh, latest update is they will give a report to us at their annual meeting in June as to uh the updates that the jurisdictions have talked about and what they're proposing. That will then give industry an opportunity to have a second round of feedback with them, and then they will be presenting a plan to the Council of Ministers in the fall. Um this is the three biggest areas that affects carrier safety ratings across the country and how they are looked after. I think we've talked before the the issue we have in Canada is a federally regulated carrier, although they're supposed to be governed by the national safety codes. Um each jurisdiction is allowed to put their own spin on it, and it's not consistent across the country on how jurisdictions enforce the rules and regulations. Uh, so the good news is the provinces are working together, they've identified areas that need to be fixed to make them more common. Um, so that's positive news. Um, but what I will say is is negative as far as the PMPC is concerned is what we heard at the hackathon in September, or the meeting in September. Uh, and since then is the jurisdictions have done a scan, they're going to do better sharing of data, they're going to make changes to implement it so they're scoring carriers the same or more similar. I wouldn't say the same, but more similar. Um, but they still are held up on the fact that they believe they need jurisdictional autonomy when it comes to how they score the carriers. And we're we're pushing back pretty heavy against that, and we'll continue to push back pretty heavy against that. Uh, our message is jurisdictional autonomy is fine for a provincially regulated carrier. There should be zero jurisdictional autonomy for a federally regulated carrier, hard stop, zero. If you're a carrier based out of BC driving to Nova Scotia, or a carrier based out of Nova Scotia driving to BC, why should you be scored differently and counted differently? You're a federally regulated carrier doing the same type of work. Where you're based out of should not depend on whether you have a good rating, bad rating, or how severely you're looked after. So our message is positive that we're doing something, positive we're looking at it. However, if you want autonomy for a federally regulated carrier, we're not going to fix our issues. We're going to have a slightly better version of the crap that's got us in the place that we're in right now. So that's that's the biggest thing we continue to push on is some positive stuff there. But uh our view is, and we'll we'll see if they heard her message, but our view is we're not going far enough.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Yeah, that makes sense, right? We had that chat, I think, last, you know, last time you were on with with regards to that challenge where you know a lot of carriers are you know running running federally regulated. Um, but depending on, you know, kind of where where they have a better score, provincially is kind of what the optics are that they're showing, you know, to to the brokers or to customers as far as you know what how safe they are on the roads and how compliant they are. And it's it's not you know clearly the right way to run it a federally. To your point, I understand the the provincial jurisdictions definitely want to have some autonomy. We understand that, but I think your your position on it kind of makes sense. If it's a provincial carrier for sure. Within the provincial regulations, that makes sense. But to your point, once it's across the country, that should really fall under you know a separate or at least a standardized jurisdiction that everyone should meet and and have a visibility to.

Red Seal Drivers And Training Oversight

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yeah, 100%. Um, so anyway, that'll be a big topic of discussion at their annual meetings this year in Fredericton uh in early June. Um, PMTC has been given an opportunity to address their board uh at the meeting. So that's one of the topics we'll be covering. Uh other things we're working on in Alberta. We're working pretty heavily with an organization called PTAC, Professional Truck Training Alliance of Canada. They're a national association that represents driver training schools. Uh, we've been working pretty hard with them on uh Red Seal for the commercial driver. Um, we're a ways away from a red seal yet, but Alberta is really the government that is leading this. They've committed to making it a designated trade by June 1st of 2027. Uh, it's going to be voluntary and will not be mandatory. Um, our position is that eventually, if this is going to work, it has to be mandatory. Voluntary has been tried before, we just don't feel it worked. Um, however, I've come around a little bit. I can understand Alberta's reasoning for wanting to make it voluntary at the start, uh, because I think there's a lot of questions to be asked yet. Maybe making it voluntary at the start while we work through some of these things is the right way to go. But uh eventually it has to become mandatory in our view. And then for people that don't know what red seal means, red seal means five jurisdictions have to come up with a similar standard and make it a designated trade. Um, so Alberta would be jurisdiction one, and then we we need four other jurisdictions to come along. Um, it can be a red seal trade and still be voluntary, to be clear. Lots of red seal trades are voluntary. Um, our view is in the long term we'd want it mandatory, but uh it is making progress. Uh we've also been working with the province of Ontario. Um had six consultation meetings so far, more to come. I can't share a lot of details. I can share a broad scope of what's being discussed. Some of it, Ontario's put out proposed regulations, uh, but they did make us sign a non-disclosure agreement, so we can't share everything we've talked about. Um but what they're talking about is um improving oversight in the commercial training industry, making changes to the licensing process, whether that be a graduated licensing system, something along those forums, or talking about a waiting period after you get your class G before you can get your class A license. In fact, that one they have announced a regulation for that they they plan to put a waiting period in. What they haven't announced in the regulation yet is what that timeline will be, whether it'll be six months, a year, two years. Uh, that is yet to be determined, and something that we're talking about is in the group. Um improvements to melt. So these are all things the government is is talking about and expect to have some draft regulations uh to post and hopefully be implemented sometime in 2027. Uh, they have uh formed a commercial vehicle oversight branch, which is led by uh Sean Ducette. I'm not sure if you remember that name, but he used to be the C VR, the head of the CVR department, uh register. He's now leading this department. And one of the big things they started doing now, which uh hats off to them because uh us and a number of other associations recommended this about five years ago. Um we were told no at the time, and now they're doing it, which is MTO and the MTCU, Ministry of Training Colleges and Universities are now going into the schools and doing joint office. Okay. So MTO is checking them as if they're a trucking company, and the MTCU is checking them for facility requirements, training, requirements, registration. So uh their plan is to try and get into all schools, all two schools in the next couple years. Gotcha. Um, so we are seeing uh some improvement in oversight compliance because uh, as you know, that's one of the big things we've been harping on is uh there's been no oversight and compliance of driver training schools.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yeah, and I think you've seen that even in news the last little while, where I guess there's been, you know, I guess with this coming down or starting to roll into place, you're starting to see the the schools that probably shouldn't be around are are starting to fold up, so which is but it's doing its job, right? It's it's weeding out the should be shouldn't be there.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Hopefully, and it this has been an issue right across Canada. Alberta's also making changes to this. Manitoba did a couple years ago, so this oversight compliance isn't isn't uh just an issue in one province or the other. It's pretty much an issue right across the board, um, and where there hasn't been enough of it. And now after you know years of us harping, I think, and people seeing what's what's happening with what's happening with our uh our road safety and the quality of drivers being put out, I think governments are are finally starting to take uh heed to this and put the resources behind it that it needs. We're we're at a starting point, we're nowhere near finish point, it's not enough yet, but we're seeing signs in the right direction where oversight um enforcement uh is starting to be ramped up and being taken much more seriously by elected officials than it was in the past.

Driver Misclassification Crackdown Expands

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Definitely. Well that's it's funny. Between you know that and the the red seal, um, you know, for for drivers, since we've been doing this podcast with you, I mean, that's always kind of been on your your radar, and it's been nice to see, although it's slow as we kind of expect with with government regulations, but it's been a steady kind of progression to you know towards the goal you guys are have been advocating for, you know, for both both these two fields.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Yeah, well, and uh, you know, we've how long we've been talking about uh misclassification of drivers and and that issue with fleets too, right? And it's it's been a black hole for I'd say for years where nobody seemed to care. Um now we're starting to see some action on that, right? Where we're seeing um you know, we we saw an end of the moratorium on T4As, but and just to be clear for what people don't understand with that T4A is something an employer has to issue to an employee when sorry, to an independent contractor. If they're not an employee, then you have to issue them a T4A. There's been a moratorium on enforcement and penalties associated with T4As since 2011, I believe. The moratorium was put in place by the Stephen Harper government. That's how far back this goes. Um, and it was basically put in place because uh employers complained at the time and lobbying put in place at the time that it was too hard to comply with, it was too much paperwork. Like to be clear, if if you hired somebody to plow snow out of your driveway, you were supposed to issue them a T4A if they're an independent contractor. Anyone who does work for you that isn't an employee was supposed to be issued a T4A. So they put a moratorium on it, they ended the moratorium just for the trucking industry. Law didn't change, they just said we're gonna start enforcing rules on it again and start enforcing penalties. They only changed it for the trucking industry, no other industry in the country, just the trucking industry. Um, and I got asked by uh some individuals from the CTAO, which is the association um largely known to represent misclassified drivers and fleets. Um, they may not like me saying it, but it is what it is. And they asked me at a conference in November why the government was only putting the moratorium on the trucking industry and and not other segments of the industry. My response was uh government did surveys on this, they did study on it. This is more prevalent in the trucking industry than it is in any other industry in our country. It's a bigger problem in our industry than it is anywhere else. Is this an issue in other industries? Of course it is, but it's a bigger issue in the trucking industry than it is anywhere else. There's limited resources, so they're gonna attack the ones that are known to be the most non-compliant at this point. So the announcement of the end of the moratorium on T4As, it's a positive step. But um if you know you're not complying with the law, you're not gonna start issuing a T4A now that there's penalties for it, right? So we have to make sure we identify those. And the other announcement that they made was in legislation, a sharing agreement between Employment and Social Development Canada and the CRA, where they in and out sharing information back and forth. So if Employment and Social Development Canada, when they're checking labor practices and other issues, if they identify a fleet that may be driver inc, they will now report it to CRA. CRA can go to CRA sees labor issues, they'll share that information with ESDC. So they're now sharing information back and forth, uh, which is identifying more fleets. Um, Ontario has been doing a number of audits. Um with this, we're seeing Ontario, Manitoba, Quebec have done blitzes in the last six months where they're actually putting employment officers at the scales on roadside, doing questionnaires with drivers to identify if they may be driver ink or not. And then if they do identify their driver ink, they're then going in and doing audits and blitzes on. So we've we've seen a big turnaround on this, and I think we know it's having an effect because um there's been press out there, uh especially from the CTAO again, where they're screaming racism. Their members are being targeted because of their press. Well, they're not being targeted because of race, they're being targeted because they're the fleets that are being identified as misclassifying drivers, right? If you're if you're properly classifying your drivers and following all labor rules, what's your issue with the blitz? Right. And I've also had members of ours, Wellington Motor Freight, has been blitzed. They didn't have an issue with it. They were in there for a day, checked everything out, they're fine. If you're following the law, what's your what's your issue? Shouldn't be a concern. So I'd say what we're seeing is that the Carney version of the liberal government seems to be more interested in enforcing rules and regulations than the liberal or than the Trudeau version was. And we're starting to see more cooperation from the provinces uh on this because I think they've realized finally how big of an issue this and a lot of public outcry. And to be honest, there's been pressure from south of the border for us to deal with this as well.

unknown 16:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

And it and the interesting part of it, uh, which ties into kind of my my my next conversation with you, was you know, as far as the economic conditions, it's been, you know, challenging, I think, to put it nicely, you know, for everybody, not just the trucking, but but everyone. Um, but obviously by enforcing the regulations as they're written with regards to driver classification, this then should level out the playing field for all the fleets as they're competing for business. Obviously, private fleets structure a little bit differently than for higher fleets, but but in in theory, when you have miscalculed classified drivers, obviously, you know, your your cost of running is different than than if you're you're following regulations. So this potentially as we're in a you know challenging economic times and as you know hopefully gets gets better, this will hopefully level the playing field with all the carriers uh as they go forward.

Lenders Tighten Standards In Trucking

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Yeah, one would hope. And I mean, uh the standard argument or the standard number that you hear is is that fleets that misclassify their drivers and pay them as independent contractors are saving roughly 30% because of you know they're not playing, they don't have to pay vacation time, they don't have to play long-term, short-term disability, they don't have to pay payroll taxes, uh, et cetera, et cetera. They don't have pensions, et cetera, like some companies do. Uh, so the 30% is just basically on payroll remittances. My arguments would be they're even saving more than 30%, because not all of them do this, but most of these fleets that are misclassifying their drivers are also the same fleets that have been found to be underpaying drivers, way below industry standards, uh withholding pay, um, not following safety practices that other fleets do as well. Like I'm not saying there isn't some misclassified fleets out there that operate safely, as far as rules and regulations are. Certainly there are. And there's fleets out there who are property classifying their drivers who aren't operating safely. I mean, so we're generalizing if we're saying it all, but I mean, studies have proven that fleets that misclassify have a higher prevalency of not following safety rules, not keeping their equipment up to date, not paying drivers properly. You know, general thing is you don't break one rule, right? If you break one, you're probably gonna break more. Um, so they're probably even saving more than 30% because of all the other practices they're not following. Yeah. Um we're all we are also seeing because of what's been going on in the industry and the economy hasn't been good, we're seeing banks pull back. BMO's the largest lender there was, and I mean they're they're pulling back big time and basically getting out of this because um you know, we've seen some pretty big fleets that have been just walking away from assets. And now you're seeing in the court system after what happened with with Pride Group there a year or so ago, where a bunch of lenders were left holding the bag, and then uh federal judge basically let them buy it back for$30 million and go run it again while they're never paying their debts off. What we're seeing now with the rulings is we saw it with Lightspeed Logistics, you've seen it with a few cents then is the um the banks and the courts are coming in and saying, no, that's it. We're pulling out, hand it all in, sell off property, sell off assets, or not being given the rope that they were before. Um and there's less banks want to do business with fleets that uh they feel maybe misclassifying drivers. So I think that's gonna have a change as well as banks are lenders are starting to look more into the whole of your operations, just not safety and compliance, but also labor practices, et cetera, before they're they're gonna lend you money. So the noose is being tightened a little bit finally.

Preparing For The May Road Check

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, we talk about the economic conditions, there's that part of it as well that you know isn't as I always in the press, but definitely, you know, from our side, we see it the you know, the lender pool maybe isn't as big or as as hungry, you know, as it has been in the past. And if if they are, they're definitely going after the the stronger candidates, right? They're not, I think you know, five, six years ago they're everyone was kind of getting in on everything and the market was hot and people wanted to be, you know, lose an opportunity. I think now they're really scrutinizing every opportunity and you know, and and rightfully so. And there's nothing wrong with that, just making sure you've you know everyone is fully in compliance with everything and that that's who you you kind of want to move forward with for sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah, well, you lend your money, you're probably in good business practices, you know you're gonna get it back.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Well then uh, you know, when we talk about you know safety regulations, one thing coming up that we want to at least make mention to, and you get some little bit of feedback is so there's a uh a CBSA uh road check coming out in May, uh I think it's May 12th to 14th. Uh well, what do you see some of the fleets doing to kind of prepare for that or what expect that on the roads when that happens?

PMTC Conference Preview And Highlights

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Yeah, I I mean I I think our members there isn't a lot to do to get prepared because I mean if you're properly maintaining your trucks, keeping regular maintenance up, uh training your drivers properly and doing thorough pre-trip inspections and catching these things, I don't I don't think there is a lot to do to prepare. You just carry on as you normally do. Um, you may see some fleets just as the best practice, may try to round all their trucks through ahead of schedule, you know, maybe bring them all in two, three, four weeks before the blitz to give them a once through to make sure that there isn't any issues that the the drivers missed or the shop has missed. But I think it's just normal practice for uh for a lot of them. The uh the fleets that don't have safety in mind maybe prepare by you know trying to avoid the scales or going off the road, and those those are the ones that we obviously want to get at. Um, one thing I would like to see, and uh, this is top of mind because I just got an email off this morning, actually. One of one of my Ontario offers um fleets uh industry an opportunity to visit the During road check. You can you can sign a waiver. They they give you scheduled times at different locations, and you can actually go in and visit what they're doing during the three-day road check. And I had one member reach out to me to other jurisdictions offer this. Um and to my knowledge, no, because I reached out last year to uh uh to Alberta, Manitoba, uh, Saskatchewan, BC, and they they didn't have a process in place for people to visit the scales. Um and my member brought, well, I wish they did because I won't name the company, but they said we had some fleets, some divisions in certain areas that were having issues with uh vehicle maintenance, safety, and compliance practices. We had them visit the scales in the Ontario area, and it was an eye-opener for them when they saw what was taking place and what they were seeing as to why this was so important. And they noticed a cultural change within their company shortly after the visits to the scale, and they wish they had the opportunity to expand this across Canada. So um, so I mean it it just shows one way that uh something like that, even though you even though you think you'd already know that sometimes it takes a culture change to see why it's important to do this stuff and what the officers are finding when they do these inspections that that are jeopardizing road safety.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

So that's good to know. That's uh that question up there. And I guess the the one big thing for you guys as an organization is your conference is coming up uh soon, very quick, by the time this is hits air. Maybe you want to fill us in on uh the when and what people can expect this year at the conference.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Yeah, so it's June 16th and 17th. Uh we are in Niagara Falls again. We're at the Falls View Casino this time, as opposed to the convention center. So we've got a bit more space. We uh we sold out last year again with 327 and 59 booth locations. So this year we've got space for 350 and 65 booth locations. There still is uh booth locations available, which is unusual. Uh usually we're sold out by the end of March, so we've we've still got some space available. Changed it a little bit this year in as long as I can remember, we've done a half day on the Tuesday afternoon, full day on the Wednesday, half day Thursday morning, and then sent everybody home at noon. Uh, there was a lot of requests from our sponsors and attendees to change this up to two full days as opposed to two days spread out over three days. Uh so that's what we've done this year. So we're starting on the 16th at nine in the morning with our uh meeting for our members only, our annual uh general meeting from 9 to 10:30. Um, and then we're starting the open form of our conference off. We're kicking it off at 11 a.m. on the 16th uh with our driver Hall of Fame launching and our dispatcher of the year uh inductees. So uh, you know, should have a big crowd first opening, full opening of the ceremony is going to be a lunch where we're honoring our drivers. So we uh thought that'd be a good opportunity to hopefully get everybody in there and kick it off. Then we've got education on the uh we've got four seminars, uh, sorry, three seminars on the 16th introduction to our benchmarking survey, uh seminar two. We've got Transport Canada as well as CCMTA providing us updates on their initiatives and regulatory updates. Uh panel on mentorship and growth, the transportation industry. Uh then we go into, you know, I'd say people's maybe part of their famous program, our cocktail reception, sponsored by uh Truck Rate, hosted by our Young Leaders Group, where uh you can drink free booze for a couple hours, or drink drink free and non-alcoholic beverages for a couple hours, whichever you choose. Um, then we go into our chairman's dinner where we do some more awards, driver training scholarship, private fleet safety awards, sponsored by uh Aviva and KRTS. Uh that ends day one, then day two. Um, vehicle. We start off with our 8 a.m. with our vehicle graphics breakfast. Uh new sponsor this year, Mac Trucks Canada is the sponsor of our graphics breakfast. This will be our 41st year of the graphics breakfast. Uh, and then we go into another event six more educational seminars on day two. Uh a bunch of different topics. Um, they can go to our website to see it all, pmpc.ca. Um we'll have a luncheon hosted by our young leaders group uh at lunchtime where we will give out some bursary awards sponsored by 10 street. Um and then after kind of a good topic, like I said, I won't go into it all, but then we're gonna close it off with a uh uh booze cigarettes and constitutional dust-ups. It's called uh Canada's fight for interprovincial free trade, which I think is kind of timely with what we've been talking about. Um, we have a uh expert from the CD Howe Institute, he's gonna provide that update. Um then this year we're closing it off with a with another cocktail party. So from 3:30 to 5:30, we have kickoff to summer closing cocktail reception or sponsors area. And then uh we're hoping after that maybe people will grab a night, go to the hotel room for another night, go out with some customers, enjoy Niagara Falls, and head home Thursday morning. So that's uh in the new format this year. So we are are looking forward to it, like you said, and people can go to our website to uh find out more info on that.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Definitely yeah, no, some great topics. I know it's an always a well-attended event, and it's it's nice because it's it's a great size where you know a lot a lot of key people are there. It's a great great room for networking as well, but also for for information. You guys bring in some very you know key speakers. I like that one in the inter interprovincial trade one, I think will be huge, just given climate, just to see, you know, hear what's actually happening. But I always found the one between the US and Canada organizations with regards to safety and that always very uh eye-opening to what's you know, the either differences, some of the similarities, how the two associated are working together, I find is always you know, somebody you always don't get full visibility to. And it's it's great you guys bring that to the table.

Final Thoughts And Sign Off

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yeah, and like the the benchmarking report done by the NPTC, yeah, they'll they'll provide results from our Canadian benchmarking report as well as provide people with a uh a comparison as to what the U.S. privacy benchmarking report uh found. So we don't have the FMCSA this year, unfortunately. Some travel restrictions on how much they're they're being allowed to go out of country to provide updates, but uh but uh so we do have Transport Canon and CCMTA who work with uh FMCSA quite a bit who will be able to provide us updates as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

So lots to look forward to, and like I said, go to the website uh for more information to sign up and to register and and to attend this year. So I think we we covered a lot. I do there's always lots to talk about and catch up on. So I do appreciate you taking time and sharing kind of what you guys are working on as an association, but also advocating for uh for the industry as a whole. So definitely appreciate your your time today on that.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

I appreciate the opportunity as always to Jason. We seem to seem to do a once a year update, and uh I appreciate the opportunity to be on with you.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Well, well, thanks again, and then and uh that concludes today's episode. To catch up on past episodes, check out transportation exchange podcast.ca. And until next time, thanks for watching.