Transportation Exchange presented by Rush Truck Centres of Canada
If you’re in the transportation industry, the Transportation Exchange podcast is for you. Listen in for insightful conversations with industry leaders covering what keeps us moving, from equipment and maintenance for fleets to new and upcoming regulations and opinions on the industry as it stands today and the road ahead.
Transportation Exchange presented by Rush Truck Centres of Canada
Exploring the S13 Integrated Powertrain with Navistar
In this episode, we welcome David Hillman, Vice President of Integrated Technologies, and Jonathan Hutchison, Sr. Powertrain Launch Manager at Navistar, to discuss the innovative S13 Integrated Powertrain. They share insights on its global impact, and how it's exceeding fuel economy expectations and enhancing driver satisfaction. We explore the recent launch of the HX620 with the S13 engine, highlighting its lightweight design, increased payload, and performance. We also cover the T14 transmission’s specialized vocational attributes, and the factory-installed PTOs manufactured in Huntsville, AL. Looking ahead, we discuss the 2024-2027 engine technology carryover, emphasizing tools, training, parts, and driver experience. Tune in now.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Transportation Exchange podcast presented by Rush Truck Scans of Canada. I'm your host, jason Cuddy, and on today's episode we welcome David Hillman, who is the VP of Integrated Technologies, and Jonathan Hutchinson, who's the Senior Powertrain Launch Manager for Navistar. Gentlemen, welcome to the podcast. Hello, thanks for having us. So we wanted to invite you guys on, as we're kind of right into the heart of the S13 kind of launch, but not outside of launch but like actually in the field, and kind of got some real testimonial and some feedback from customers. So when we did this about a year and a half ago, it was the to be seen transmission powertrain engine after treatment, and now it's here. So I thought we'd reintroduce it and kind of go through high level components and kind of what the feedback's been why don't we start with what the overview of the powertrain and components are?
Speaker 2:So the quick overview for those of you playing along at home, when we talk about the S13 integrated from International Truck, it's got three primary components that we developed as part of a clean sheet design, co-developed at the same time to all work together and in harmony. Breaking them down across the tree, there's the S13 engine, which is a proprietary 13 liter engine that generates power that goes to the T14 transmission which, as you'd expect, would have uh 14 forward gears. So that's the 14 and the t14 and, capping it all off, the uh probably the secret sauce of the whole rep is recipe is our dual stage after treatment system.
Speaker 1:And so those are the, the three major components that we talk about when we when we talk about the s13 integrated gotcha, and I think one of the things that's been, I guess, harped on and really had a big focus on is that this isn't just specifically a North American build. This is a global platform. Maybe talk to us about the global numbers free introduction to North American market.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So some of your listeners may be surprised or interested to learn that international trucks, which has a history going all the way back to Cyrus McCormick and the Mechanical Reaper in the 1830s right, we've got a long heritage that we're very proud of, but as of July of 2021, we are a wholly owned member of the Volkswagen Group. So Volkswagen, you know, already owned a company called Scania out of Sweden, man out of Germany, and they've had their own commercial vehicles division down in Brazil for many, many years. So those three brands that they already owned didn't have a footprint in North America, and so we became a very interesting and complimentary piece to the puzzle. So Volkswagen acquired International Truck and IC Bus, our school bus division, and put us together with the rest of the commercial group under the umbrella brand of Trayton so that's a new name that some of your listeners may not be familiar with.
Speaker 2:So, as part of the Trayton group, we collectively all four of the major brands within Trayton invested in a global powertrain, and so, even though we began production in North America, we localized the S13 out of our Huntsville assembly plant in Huntsville, alabama, and that production began late last year for North American customers. Scania was actually, I believe, the first to market about a year prior, in late 2022. And so, I'm sorry, in late 21,. It was in late 21 that they began. We started on board late 23. Brazil is coming on board, I think, around now,000 of these powertrains out on the roadways with over 3 billion miles of customer travel. So not just we did a lot to validate and and and to test and to confirm the designs as a group, but we've got over 3 billion road miles in customer hands globally road miles in customer hands globally.
Speaker 1:no-transcript.
Speaker 2:So, jonathan, you probably have heard some of the feedback. Why don't you start? And I can add a few pieces that I know.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So the early returns. So we got to keep in mind that duty cycles, say with Scania, and operations are quite different than here in the States. So it's hard to say, hey, yes, we have 3 billion miles, but then if you divide it by that many units, it could only be, you know, 30,000 miles or kilometers per unit that are out there running around. So but early returns on our duty cycles here in the in the States have been very, very high, praised A lot of man.
Speaker 3:I can't believe how smooth this is shifting, I can't believe just how comfortable the seats are or just the setup of the interior of the truck. So a lot of good feedback on power. They feel that it has enough power. It's lightweight so we can haul more payload. And getting into now our vocational, which what we call is our second launch into our HX620, our setback axle, we're excited to bring those initial positive returns from on highway over to the work truck side of the business because we're going to have a very, very big impact on. You know, one of our three S's If the listeners remember from I think the first time is one of our S's is stellar performance. We put that first when we talk vocational trucks. But we're also going to get that same fuel economy benefit on the vocational side as well because, like my friend David says, everyone buys diesel. So not only on highway but also vocational. So I'm seeing great, great feedback on performance and fuel economy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So kind of maybe even picking up on Jonathan's point right. Strategically, when we embarked on this new design for the group, we wanted to hit three key areas for customer audiences to benefit the drivers behind the wheel. We want to benefit the technicians in the workshops wrenching on units and finally deliver for the owners from a total cost of operation standpoint. And what's great is a lot of the feedback and Jonathan touched on some of it, but the feedback's really aligning up around all of those right Technicians.
Speaker 2:Just you tilt the hood and they go hey, I can actually see the engine underneath there. It's not buried underneath all sorts of claptrap and that's and that's again intentionally, because we were able to design out a few problem areas. Notably, we removed the EGR cooler. This is designed not to operate with cooled EGR. We designed out the variable geometry turbo which, again, the whole industry has been using for a long, long time. But most technicians would tell you it's not as robust perhaps as a simple waste-gated fixed geometry turbo, which is what the S13 employs. So we went back to some things that were maybe a bit more familiar. So the technicians love that aspect.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then to add on that, that third item that we removed was the diesel oxidation catalyst which, as some people understand and know, is a seventh injector. So right there, when we talk superior operating economy and gains in fuel efficiency, removing that DOC really enables us for our fuel economy benefits, yeah yeah, excellent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so lots of significant technical changes. You know, and I said, and the driver feedback's been great, owner feedback's been great. But I think the nice part from Navistar point of view and support level is, you know you're going from the theoretical to the practical right. You had a concept in mind over the last handful of years. You're rolling out, you know, country by country, brand by brand, but the support level on that, I mean you, you guys, have to support the dealership, the customers and the driver. You have, you know, boot camps, training, maybe walk us through kind of the backend support that you guys, that Navistar does to to make sure this is a success.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I'll, I'll. I'll start start with that and then David can get in. I'll be the theoretical and David can be the practical. So last year, about April timeframe in 2023, we rolled out an extensive bootcamp training with over 700 of our dealer body folks, as well as about 200 to 300 Navistar representatives, to really a week long training of understanding the product, the three areas the S13 engine, t14 transmission, and then our dual stage after treatment. We brought them, brought them here to Lyle, a suburb of Chicago for those that you know go Cubs but so brought them here for a week training. We took them to our navistar proving grounds, which is our, our private track in new carlisle, indiana, um, and we we had them drive it, experience it, learn about it, understand it, so then they could turn that into the practical um when they talk with, with our listeners and our and our customers, and our customers and our other dealer channels. So I'll let David then fill in the rest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think where we're at right now is a really fascinating point in the process of launching something as monumental as this to the industry. Right, we can PowerPoint the snot out of things with the best of them, right, but but I always tell customers, look, you know, I mean part of part of the part of it is our messaging and how we convey and talk to both. You know, training, training the sales people internally and training the sales channel for the dealers. But but reaching out to customers it really comes down to what I always preach is getting your drivers behind the wheel of your vehicles. Hauling your loads on your routes is really what it's all about.
Speaker 2:So we've done a lot to try and get demo units in place of customers' hands right. So international dealers around the US and Canada are really being very proactive about getting units in inventory to be able to get customer experience. The proverbial butts in seats you know that goes a lot further in my mind than anything I could show to a customer on a PowerPoint when they're experiencing it. The quiet noise level of the powertrain, the way the transmission shifts, the power it delivers, those are things that we're finding customers, especially the drivers, really are very positively vocal about in terms of hey, you told me this was going to be good and it exceeded my expectations and that's a fun spot to be in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and to add on to that, right now it's pretty exciting we have two 53-foot rolling billboards trailers which are our S13 integrated trailer tour. So that's really the next phase we're in now and we've already reached over about a thousand customers that have visited our training trailers, which have cutaways of an S13 engine, t14 transmission and the dual stage after treatment to educate not only our dealers but our customers as well. So those are rolling around. I believe they're actually heading up to Canada here pretty soon, so we're excited. So please come out and visit those. But that's my plug for the S13 trailer tour.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it should be kind of cool. I know we're looking forward to seeing. I've seen pictures online through the social media channels and kind of. You know we've seen a similar type trailer come through during the EMV, kind of launch and customer interaction. So obviously similar concept but obviously different technology. So it'll be very interesting, very cool to see you know cutaways and get a deep dive into the technology you know, kind of be able to look at and see what's changed and I think, to your point, you know when the customers see it it's going to be very impressive to look at.
Speaker 1:So, jonathan, you touched on the HX20 that was launched in April. So that's kind of you know, when this first came out, obviously, or first announced, I guess about a year and a half ago, class 8, you know, traditionally dominates the conversation for a lot of technology and everything we see. But you know a good point you made is that this does also extremely well in a vocational setting. Maybe kind of walk us through. You talked a little bit about the lightweight and increased payload part, but maybe more specifically the transmission, because that might be where a lot of people kind of have some maybe questions or concerns about how does this transmission, perform within the vocational world that you're seeing so far.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the transmission's exciting. The transmission is 14 gears but it has a wider overall ratio than an 18-speed transmission, so we're able to do much more productivity with less. What's neat also about the gearbox is that it has up to six reverse speeds. So depending on your application whether that's high rail or, say, a dump where you need to back down a couple miles you're able to go at a safe speed but also an increased speed, versus two reverse speeds which are standard on our on-highway product. But other features that we're really proud of is one called paver mode, which, with that feature, you're able to be pushed by a paver in neutral and then, when you're ready to roll away from the paver, you're able to just bump it into drive without hitting the service brake to engage the gear. So you're not going to ripple, the asphalt, get kicked off the job site and you're able to do your job much more efficiently and better.
Speaker 3:But one that we really like is precision maneuvering mode, which we call the turtle button. So that is an optional feature. So make sure your salesperson puts precision maneuvering mode on your vehicle. But that basically desensitizes the pedal and it uses it as you would a clutch. So it desensitizes the throttle pedal and you use that as you would a clutch for low-speed maneuvering, such as docks or just tight areas within a work site, so to make it more safe for the operator, for the people around on the job site. So it's special things like that as well. As you know, I commented on the smooth shifting. Well, we have 29% steps in between gears, so that is what drives that smoothness of the T14 transmission.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. And then another part that's unique to this build is the PTO. So I mean traditionally, you know all the PTOs would be outsourced, you know, through an upfitter or somewhere else, but we're keeping this in house. Maybe walk us through the thought process on that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we have our own proprietary PTOs that are that are ordered through our dealers and through our parts network. But we made the decision that we were going to make PTOs adapters standard for the second life of vehicles. But what's neat about this is that we're using our own proprietary PTOs that we assemble in Huntsville and then they're filled up with the transmission and then shipped off. These are not aftermarket, so what that really drives is first time quality. As well as that matches the transmission warranty for vocational. So, say, a typical off the shelf third party adapter PTO may only be six months or a year depending on your axle configurations. Most of ours are going to carry a three-year warranty with that T14 transmission. So that just is another another value add and confidence in our, in our product and first-time quality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good point. The warranty is a great, great part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it kind of. I think we were also approaching it with the customer in mind, right, if you're the owner for the longest time. The industry, and international truck included, had always viewed PTOs as something that someone else did. But by bringing them in part of a factory, not only does it help with the quality and to be able to offer the warranty and coverage that Jonathan mentioned, but it cuts down on installation time. It's one less variable for an owner to have to contend with, right? If there's an issue with the PTO which we wouldn't expect, right, they know they can come back to us and we've got full warranty coverage and it's all part of what they're getting from us, uh, as as a factory build. So so it really does help them with a bit of peace of mind as well excellent and, I guess, carrying on beyond 24 to 27.
Speaker 1:You know the engine technology carryovers. You know continuing with the tools, the trainings parts. You know driver experience. You're just going to keep fine tuning and honing this thing in as it, as it, you know, makes its way out into the field.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Jason, I mean there's, there's probably, um, you know, perhaps if, if we pass the test on this time, we may, uh, we, we may earn the right to do another podcast with you in the future. But you know, for your audience, thinking ahead to 2027, I know it does it doesn't feel like it's right around the corner, but from a, from a design and manufacturing and testing and validation, it's on top of us. Today, the industry is starting to communicate. You're hearing from our peers and some suppliers around what's coming ahead in terms of the 2027 emissions and greenhouse gas regulations For your audience.
Speaker 2:I want them to know that when we took our clean sheet design approach way back in 2016, 17, 10 years out we were package protecting. We were designing with those regs in mind. We didn't know exactly where the regs were going to fall. We just knew that they were going to be less than they were going to be in 2024 when we launched it. So we planned for that, we designed with that in mind and the net result is when we're ready to announce which we're not ready today, but you will see, fundamentally, the base design that we have today carry forward.
Speaker 2:There is not going to be a lot of change and tear up. So, yes, so the the driver experience is fundamentally going to carry forward. You know the, the great experience that technicians have with being able to wrench on these things, that'll carry forward. The ownership experience that that the owners have in terms of the cost of ownership should carry forward in a very strong way. Lots to be done. We're not offering our 2027 engines today, but the engines that you would buy from an international truck dealer today are going to look very familiar if you would buy the same product in 2027, 28, 29 timeframe.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. I mean, I think that's comforting news for a lot of people listening it's. You know, technology has changed so fast and that 27 EPA guideline is huge. So knowing that there's not going to be a, you know, a monumental change in the architecture of what you guys have rolled out, I think you know might put some people at ease with regards to you know, just what's coming down the pipe. That's right. That's right, excellent, well, hey, lots to look forward to in the coming years, obviously, but obviously great things right now for people to dive in and enjoy. Great, you know.
Speaker 1:Customer feedback, driver feedback, I know, from people who've done, you know, the drives you mentioned and the proving grounds, wonderful things to say. As far as the experience, specifically that transmission, you know, I don't think they've ever driven anything as smooth, you know, as what's in there. So the feedback has been positive. It's nice to to see it gain momentum, um, and we look forward to kind of seeing the, the impact it has on the industry as we go forward. So it's great and I appreciate you sharing information with us today absolutely, yeah, we're truly excited.
Speaker 2:Jonathan and I just happened to represent thousands of our compatriots here at International Truck and globally, the Trayton Group collectively invested lots of money, lots of resources, lots of human capital, lots of money, lots of resources, lots of human capital. And the good news is we had our thinking caps on. We went about this the right way. So, as a group, that's one of the things to me that's most exciting. I've been with International over 25 years and being able to leverage the global resources that, frankly, an outfit like Volkswagen can help bring to bear is really exciting, right. So being able to see what we've been able to do as an independent company for a long, long time, but now take it up several notches, several levels up in terms of what we're able to bring from a quality perspective, from a performance perspective, from an ownership benefit perspective, we're really excited about how the S13 is going to positively impact the marketplace.
Speaker 1:Well said. That's a good point. The size of the people and the money behind this now and going forward, I think is a testament to what's out in the field right now. So it's nice to see and it's well stated. Thank you, hey. Well, that concludes today's episode. I do want to thank David and Jonathan from Navistar for joining us and to catch up on past episodes, check out the transportation exchange podcastca. And until next time, thanks for listening.